Author Topic: AP Class  (Read 12230 times)

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Offline TomC

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AP Class
« on: October 30, 2005, 08:33:09 pm »
AP Class
Post by Squidd on Jul 10, 2005, 3:13pm


8.5 hp and under...

What's the model number of the block I should look for...

Besides Tom's billet flywheel, what other part's (numbers) are reccomended and available for these motors... Carbs, Pistons, rod, Crank, Cam etc...?

Or is the Techumsa the better bet ?..parts availabilty,cu.in. etc...??

Re: AP Class
Post by Squidd on Aug 16, 2005, 7:11pm


OK...Got a couple 190707s...and the tinyest little mid motor chassis I could find, so I'm ready to commit to an AP for next season...

I suppose it's a Ford/Chevy/Mopar thing, but I'm going with the Briggs over the more common Techumsa...

So the question now is ...

What's procedure, the parts list, the killer set up...?

There are a half dozen or so guys/sites touting 28s and 30s for SP, but who's doing the 19s..??

Anybody experimenting with boring, sleeving and bumping them to 20s or 22s...??

I'd like to talk to a couple of builders...most likely have you do my first one, but I'd like to know you have a compleate package or program in place to put it together...

Bore, sleave, lighter piston, balanced crank, thrust bearing(s), port polish, cam and lifter,oversized valves, matching carb and manifold, flywheel, mag, the whole nine yards...

Who's the authority in this arena...and who's willing to rise to the challange..??

Offline mowerracer313

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« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2005, 07:08:03 pm »
This is for the contest
But one question is a scatter shield going to be mandatory in the future  if so what can we use to make one
Brian Singsime
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Offline mowerracer313

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« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2005, 06:00:24 pm »
Heres one for you guys
Which 8hp is better to build  the syncro balance motor  or the older non syncro motor
A motor with a cast iron sleeve or a cool bore motor
Also when gettin a cam ground about how much rpm should i be turnin for an AP mower
Brian Singsime
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Offline Squidd

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« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2005, 06:14:49 pm »
Well Brian, I usually don't tell everyone this...But for You... 8)

Run the older motor, the older the better, no need to freshen it up they are just fine as you find them in the junk yard..

The cam lobes should be ground down to almost nothing and if it smokes(but not too much) all the better...

Try to keep the RPMs down below 4000 and gear conservitively...

These are trade secrets here now, so don't tell anyone I told you this... :wink:

I'm just doing it cause you and I are going to be racing the same class next season... :twisted:
Randy Stys
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Offline Squidd

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« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2005, 08:50:26 pm »
But seriously dude...

Check in with Don at G-Team for low down on the little motors... http://www.g-team.us/8hp_briggs.htm

He's starting to put a package together and offering a few parts to get you started in the right direction...

And you can even tell him I sent you.. :wink:
Randy Stys
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Offline George Herrin

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« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2005, 10:26:42 pm »
Well with the new rule changes if the Briggs model number 220702, 220705 or 220706 can be found, the 8 hp motor will be obsolete. The thing has a 28 cube pistion right off the bat!!!! Let the search begin.
George Herrin #6
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Offline Squidd

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« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2005, 10:35:57 pm »
I'm betting there's going to be a "clarification" on those rule changes...

My moneys still on the 19" Briggs.. :wink:
Randy Stys
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Offline George Herrin

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« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2005, 10:45:44 pm »
There better be a better one than they posted, by what it says it is a legal motor. And if they disallow that then the tvm-220 should be disallowed. It is 22 cubic inches. The new wording has opened a real can of worms. Time to fix it now before they all get out. And unfortunatley the porr little 8 will never compete with a really built Tecumseh motor. They when done are 31 cubes. The 8 will never get close to that. No substitute for cubic inches.
George Herrin #6
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Offline Squidd

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« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2005, 11:00:37 pm »
Really...? They are getting 31" from a 22" motor...???

Must be stroking them, because they can't get all that out of boring and sleaving...???

Or can you...??
Randy Stys
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Offline George Herrin

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« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2005, 11:58:58 pm »
HAve you seen Becker running at a National race. He laps everything out there. And yes they are getting 31 cubes. They are running a stack of washers basically but they doing it. And I know one for sure is not sleeving it. Simply not enough room left. Ain't no way a 19 cube briggs will ever hold a big enough piston or get stroked enogh to run with any Tecumsh motor Mace or Tim H. builds. They have perfected them and like i said no substitute for cubic inches.
George Herrin #6
Indian Power.. You gotta Go big to beat em or Go HOME
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Offline Squidd

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« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2005, 06:26:26 am »
Gonna have to look these guys up and keep my eye open in the bone yard...
Randy Stys
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Offline mowerracer313

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« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2005, 08:11:58 pm »
Lets see if i understand this the tvm-220 is a 22 cube rated at 8hp
ok the briggs 22cube was rated at 10hp and that is why it isnt legal???

so should i wait on buildin my motor till i see if things change or just build the 19 cube motor

so far all the tecumsehs ive found in the junkyard are toast
Brian Singsime
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Offline George Herrin

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« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2005, 09:00:51 pm »
Here is my take on this. The 22 cube Briggs motor is a 10 hp motor same as the tvm-220 tecumseh and yes the tecumseh was sold with a 8 hp sticker, I am told the Briggs was to on a rear engine frame which is a medium frame. Both engines are medium frame both fit the 22 cubic inch or less requirement . SO what is the difference. Tech don't want the briggs in the playing field in AP then remove the wording (with a maximum original displacement of 22 cubic inches and under) That would solve it. Why not have an even playing field here. The Tecumsehs are pushing 31 cubes when built right the 19 series 8 will never run with it.
George Herrin #6
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Offline Don Gienger

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« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2005, 06:27:38 am »
Hi Guys and Gals.
Ok I am a large frame can I race AP?? LOL Well maybe that was not
funny.
But the words " Medium Frame" Motor has to go. Here's why.
A Briggs 16, 17 and 19 all share the same size block
Briggs 22 and 25 share the same as well.
Briggs 28 is a Bigger motor then them all.
So I see.......
16, 17 and 19 as a small size
22 and 25 as a Medium size
28 as the Big block.
Hey guys really you can't use those words they are bad. 22 and 25
share everything but stroke. I know you don't want the 8 hp 28 CID
motors in the AP class.....got it no problem.
But Medium frame just don't work since the 22 and 25 are really the
medium in our sport.
If we raced 5 hp lawn mower motors they would become the "Small"
motor. But really it is the 19 CID motor that is the small one here.
AP's are small mowchines with small motors. 19 CID and less is what
it should say. NO TVM 220 allowed. Sorry but I have never like that
rule. Take a TVM195 and bore it to a 220 so what. But don't start
out with a TVM220.
I realize tech takes to long. I also understand you can't tell the
difference from a TVM 195 or 220 so you let them both go. So now
this kills the guy with a 8hp 19 CID motor. You might as well say in
the rules that Tecumseh motors are the only thing allowed.
You can't allow a model 22 Briggs into the race either. I can tell
you I know how to make it a 28 CID in a blink. It is a very easy
motor to make WAY bigger then the class needs.
I say it is time to fix an old problem. 19 CID and
less.........period!!!! Tech the TVM220 out of the class. If you
have to pull a plug and get the equipment to test every AP then
fine. All you will really have to tech is the Tec motors since
Briggs has only one motor to work with.
Hey guys just my 2 cents.
Don
Hi,
  That Don never thinks things through all the way so here is what I think should happen in the AP class.
  #1 Motor for the AP class should be a Briggs model number starting with 19 ONLY!
  No Tecumseh motors allowed. ( this would fix a lot but make mad a lot of people )
  OR
  #2 AP Class motors are Briggs and Tecumseh. Briggs 19 CID and Less. This is model number starting with 19 and smaller motors. Tecumseh's can run 195 and 220 only. These are the only two motors and sizes allowed in the AP class. Valve in block vertical shaft 4 stroke motors and all that.
  There Don get it right next time.
So you are all not confused this is what I posted on the US Yahoo site.
This AP rule just ain't going to work. I don't know if I have the answers either but they really missed the boat on this one.
Later
Don
Founder NDLMRA
NDLMRA Race Director
2007 USLMRA CP Class Champ
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Offline Don Gienger

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Good News!!!!
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2005, 06:38:01 am »
HI All,
I am hard at work on 8 hp motors. Some have told me since I can make a 31 out of a 28 I should be able to do more with a 8hp.
Well I am trying. I have balance a syncro balance crank without adding ARC counter weights. I have mower down the road but I have to start somewhere.
I am working on cams too. I have a cam for 8 hp that works well but I want a much bigger cam for them.
So keep checking with me.
Don
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NDLMRA Race Director
2007 USLMRA CP Class Champ
G-Team Racing
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